Curse

Rene Saliere · Apr 28, 2008, 12:00 AM // 00:00

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Originally Posted by Likelytodie

Not 100% true honestly, maybe for HM dungeons etc, but if you wanna play in a group thats not Ursan, I wouldn't recommend pugging...

If 90% of the pugs are ursans, it's true enough for me.

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Titles didn't mean much (if anything) to begin with.

That does not affect the statement that they are worth less now, however.

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There weren't many options before, people usually ran that exact same bars every time they did elite missions etc. Generaly in Urgoz, DoA, etc people ran builds that had been proven to work, and if you weren't the correct profession with the correct build, then you weren't welcome. Now, it's kept it limited to the "you must have this build" but given you access to it on any profession.

Still, even less options now. The situation has become worse, just as I said.

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Complaining about it taking more time really does not interest me. R10 norn can be reached in a day if you really want it, it's not that difficult, trust me.

I was saying both level 20 and Rank 10 take about the same time. I have a lot of characters, titles, and yes, R10 Norn too, so I know.

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If someone had made a sin/mesmer as a title character, why wouldn't they want to bring it to an elite area? Gotta fill up that HoM somehow, and honestly most people (friends or not) for whatever reason don't like to play with sins, mesmers, or a few other classes, and giving them a way to get into groups hasn't hurt people who made a sin/mesmer title character, and I dont see the problem in that.

Perhaps you should be advocating buffs to mesmer and assassin skills then.

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I don't understand why people argue to nerf a skill they don't have to use. You said it yourself, if you wanna play a normal bar, play with friends.

I already answered this argument. The problem with it is it can be used to justify any unbalanced skill whatsoever. No doubt if UB was made 255 times stronger there would be people still saying this kind of thing.

Maria The Princess · Apr 28, 2008, 12:53 AM // 00:53

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Originally Posted by Rene Saliere

Still, even less options now. The situation has become worse, just as I said.

previous situation: if you are not an ele that is running SF you cannot get into a lets say, FOW PUG as an ele. Now if you were playing a Sin, there were no chances at all you would get in any PUG regardless of the build you are using. Running a dummy SF (or whatever other build) that the party was REQUESTING was not any funner then running the UB skill bar

Now: if you are any class that runs UB you can join a PUG for pretty much any area. the diffrence is that more players have access to areas, and class discrimination is gone. and if you want to play the actual proffession, you can play other then elite areas, you can join friends, guild etc.

also, as i said in my previous post, not everybody has 12 friends who will do the Deep with you while youre playing an assasin, or has an active guild/allience. some guilds have been around forever and have still teh same group of friends playing/chatting and no inactivity or elite areas would make them leave their guild made in beta or at release.

i think i made my point clear enouth to stop arguing about it

/goes back to the screenshot exposition forum

kazjun · Apr 28, 2008, 01:09 AM // 01:09

/not signed

Limiting one skill is just weird. If you were going to do this, then you may as well limit asuran skills to asuran areas, EV skills to EV areas and dwarf skills to dungeons only. Then you may as well limit kurzick skills to kurz areas and lux skills to the jade sea. And sunspears skills to NF. No.

Plus ursan's probably one of the few things that actually get pugged outside of guild groups. Otherwise, there's really usually only one build for each of the elite farms, and no way to do those area's if you don't fit that build.

hurdlebeast · Apr 28, 2008, 01:22 AM // 01:22

/semisigned

limit it to eye of the north, mebbe?

The only reason ursan itself is being targeted, and not the other eotn skills, is because ursan is wayyyy overpowered. all other overpowered skills have been nerfed at one point or another, or are probably on the chopping block right now. Ursan should be no exception...but...

Ursan is an Eye of the North skill. if you an elite player, and want to do elite dungeons in pugs, well, you had better buy Eye of the North and get ursan...

basically, Anet will not nerf Ursan simply because there is a percentage of players who have not bought Eye of the North but want to elite dungeons in pugs, and Anet wants that percentages' sales, so by keeping Ursan as "the only way to go" in elite pugs (a true oxymoron if there ever was one) it makes some more players consider buying Eye of the North

noneedforclevernames · Apr 28, 2008, 01:22 AM // 01:22

I think they should make #2 have no KD and make all the spells non-armor ignoring and make the shout into a stance and deduct the the armor and health you receive while under the effects of Ursan Blessing in half. Simple, easy.

Thizzle · Apr 28, 2008, 02:25 AM // 02:25

/notsigned

Either keep it or remove, can't have in a middle.

Like others said it takes to much time to do elite missions and hard mode without it.

Rene Saliere · Apr 28, 2008, 02:31 AM // 02:31

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Limiting one skill is just weird. If you were going to do this, then you may as well limit asuran skills to asuran areas, EV skills to EV areas and dwarf skills to dungeons only. Then you may as well limit kurzick skills to kurz areas and lux skills to the jade sea. And sunspears skills to NF. No.

Plus ursan's probably one of the few things that actually get pugged outside of guild groups. Otherwise, there's really usually only one build for each of the elite farms, and no way to do those area's if you don't fit that build.

Lightbringer skills and rank are absolutely useless except against the demons and demonic servants in Nightfall.

EotN rank bonuses are useless outside 'native' areas.

So there is precedent for area based skill usage.

As far as build biases go for specific elite areas, the only change that ursan has brought is made them ALL THE SAME. So, of course UB has made the build restriction worse than it was before. Less variety, less skill, more boredom.

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previous situation: if you are not an ele that is running SF you cannot get into a lets say, FOW PUG as an ele. Now if you were playing a Sin, there were no chances at all you would get in any PUG regardless of the build you are using. Running a dummy SF (or whatever other build) that the party was REQUESTING was not any funner then running the UB skill bar.

For those of you who claim profession bias, last I saw one copy of a GW campaign will give you 4? character slots. So, this character bias is a myth, given you can level a character in roughly the same time it takes to farm level 10 in Norn and/or Rank 8 in Lightbringer.

There will be some who wish to have their Assassin or Mesmer be their 'main' character regarding titles, but there are two ways of dealing with this that do not completely overwhelm game balance:

1) Buff Assassin and Mesmer PvE skills.
2) Bear in mind that Mesmers and Assassins have advantages in PvP titles.

Finally, it seems to me intellectually unfair to claim that the unbalanced UB can't be made balanced because of all the other game imbalances in GW.

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Like others said it takes to much time to do elite missions and hard mode without it.

So now we have to keep Ursan's Blessing because it saves time? I guess if we made it twice as powerful we could save even more time!

cellardweller · Apr 28, 2008, 03:08 AM // 03:08

The most comparable skills to ursan are the junndu ones which are restricted to the desolation only so I don't see the a problem with limiting ursan in the same way. That being said, any change will too little to late because the skill has irrepairably damaged the PvE environment.

kratimas · Apr 28, 2008, 03:42 AM // 03:42

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Originally Posted by ogre_jd

Tons of people keep calling for a general nerfing to Ursan Blessing.

Lets see a Ton is 2240 pounds.

If we say the average person calling for the general nerfing is 100 pounds (ya right) then for 1 ton that is only 22.4 people.

Also to make it ton(s) of people it would require a minimum of 2 so, we now have 44.8 people out of 5 million copies sold calling for this nerf.

Therefore 0.00000896% of the GW population is calling for a general nerfing.

Is that really a substantial enough number to create yet another needless NERF URSAN THREAD?

RiceCream · Apr 28, 2008, 04:06 AM // 04:06

this weekend was Hell's Precipice weekend.
i cannot count the number of people spamminr "r10 ursan lf nm".
tbh... if you have to ursanway Hell's Precipice, ltp or uninstall.

i then proceeded to HM it with a full PUG group, ursan free, consumable free, and ZOMG WE HAD MESMER yes you are useful in missions, dont have to ursan

seriously... the amount of bad players with big titles (kinda like r/d's looking for r9/10+ sway...) running around who dont know how to play their classes cause all they do is "hai ursanway? i have con sets" is retarded. with UB, theres absolutely no skill left to pve what so ever.

limiting UB to norn areas would make complete sense. /signed

Rene Saliere · Apr 28, 2008, 04:07 AM // 04:07

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Originally Posted by kratimas

Therefore 0.00000896% of the GW population is calling for a general nerfing.

Is that really a substantial enough number to create yet another needless NERF URSAN THREAD?

A percursory look at GWGuru membership pages suggests a total membership of almost 162,000. The number of members online at the time of this post is 18. Of which 3-4 were viewing this thread.

That's a minimum 16% of the current online GW Guru population and this is not the only UB thread. And that's just at this specific moment in time.

Having said that, if the UB issue is one that is constantly coming up, it can hardly be of little importance to a sizeable number of people, who, at the least, care about the state of the game enough to want to express their opinions.

Besides your dodgy maths, you can't have it both ways: claim virtually no one is worried about UB and complain about the number of threads by people worried about UB.

But thanks for expressing your opinion that another expression of opinion is a waste of time. In the thread you consider a waste of time. : ).

NB: The number of copies of EotN is not 5 million. I think you are confusing 5 million with the number of GW chapters sold.

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Originally Posted by Star Gazer

You, sir, win GWG. No other threads or posts are needed. This one is perfect.

Except... assuming the total membership of GWG reads and posts in every forum every day he is out by 5 million divided by 162000 which is by a factor of 31. These assumptions are outrageously exaggerated in his favour for comedic effect.

Star Gazer · Apr 28, 2008, 04:14 AM // 04:14

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Originally Posted by kratimas

Lets see a Ton is 2240 pounds.

If we say the average person calling for the general nerfing is 100 pounds (ya right) then for 1 ton that is only 22.4 people.

Also to make it ton(s) of people it would require a minimum of 2 so, we now have 44.8 people out of 5 million copies sold calling for this nerf.

Therefore 0.00000896% of the GW population is calling for a general nerfing.

Is that really a substantial enough number to create yet another needless NERF URSAN THREAD?

You, sir, win GWG. No other threads or posts are needed. This one is perfect.

Pleikki · Apr 28, 2008, 05:11 AM // 05:11

/Signed.. I think it shouldnt been in other places then eotn

kazjun · Apr 28, 2008, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Again, just restricting one skill (and it is one, since just about no one uses wolfen or raven) is just weird. Either all title skills should be restricted, or none should. making ursan the one lone exception out of the entire skill list is wierd. If it was more mission specific, like disarm traps/celestial skills/junudu, that's one thing. But just up and saying ursan is saying that SF doesn't work outside of NF, or SS working only in prophs. A player skill is unlocked for use everywhere in pve once he's unlocked the skill. No exceptions I know of. And LB is restricted by enemy type, not area. Plenty used to use it in slavers. And I can carry it in the jade sea, just that there's no one to hit there.

And title bonuses aren't skills. I only get +energy in asura areas, but I can summon anywhere and pain inverter anyone.

And you still haven't answered the questions plenty bring up about class discrimination in pugs. My mains are w/n/ran/ele so I can do pretty much any area I want, with or without my guild. But I also know plenty of guildies who can't do ANY of the elite areas since their classes are pretty much untouchable in pve, outside of guildies. But if they ursan, they can get taken along, rather then have people just ignore them as if they weren't even there. I'd even say that ursan is probably the biggest cause of pugging since NF came out. And you could also say that it opened up some elite areas. Before ursan, how many groups do you think formed to clear UW/FoW? Outside of guild groups, nearly every pug was for forge/spider/chest runs. or two manning the UW. Or trapper groups. Likewise, do you think DOA was this busy before ursan was out? Shortly before people started making ursan groups (and with gem price drops and the ambrace fiasco), DOA was pretty much a ghost town. Except for, again, guild groups, there were only a few regulars who farmed there. The rare pug was usually old school tank and spank or famine farming. Unless you fit those molds, you may as well try to 4 man with your heroes cause the chance that anyone would take you was pretty much zero. I reckon ursan is worth puting up with for that alone.

Even then, you only get ursans in elite areas, or area clearing. Just farming certain sections (smite runs) you still get all your old builds. And even then, they aren't the only pugs. Deep still have plenty looking for W/A's and slavers (the campaign ursan comes from) have more obby tank+nukers+FS+SoS teams than ursan. By a large margin. And I doubt you'd get a pug at all to clear the FoW or UW without ursan. People would all go guildies and heros, and the only pugs who'd want to go for a clear would be noobs who get wiped by the aataxes on the stairs, or you'd end up taking like 4 hours crawling along and rebirthing every 10 mins or so.

As for number of threads complaining about ursan, alot of the posts are by the same people over and over again. You must also consider that the number of posters on guru is the smallest fraction of those who play GW. You can't just take what a minority say and impose it on he majority. That's just bad business.

KennyC · Apr 28, 2008, 05:49 AM // 05:49

/signed +1 for nerf

zwei2stein · Apr 28, 2008, 06:01 AM // 06:01

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Originally Posted by cellardweller

The most comparable skills to ursan are the junndu ones which are restricted to the desolation only so I don't see the a problem with limiting ursan in the same way. That being said, any change will too little to late because the skill has irrepairably damaged the PvE environment.

Hey, I wanted to say all that!

Rene Saliere · Apr 28, 2008, 06:23 AM // 06:23

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